Finally! IntrusionWars has been released for the public!
I'm posting the news in the forum to be sure nobody misses the information; and the map of course! lol
So, in few words...
Originally, Intrusion has been designed and "thought" for the coop mode "only"; but after some reflections (and requests!), I concluded it was still possible to edit the map for the other modes as well. For all those modes, Intrusion became IntrusionWars. Note that both maps won't be merged together because of "technical reasons"...
If you host the map, be sure to invite A LOT of players because she has plenty of room for them, and for a lot of action! lol
I tried to do my best to take care of all those modes as well, but as I'm mainly a "coop player", I probably made "noob mistakes" also (like in the respawnings)... Don't worry, changes are still possible, the map is still a beta version.
And...don't forget to enable the Spectator Cams because if I see you're playing on IntrusionWars, I may join the server to observer how the map is played.
Note that IntrusionWars has the updated graphics, sounds, objects and terrain I will use for the next Intrusion beta map version (for Coop)!
Post your comments and bug reports here if you have some...
I walked through it, I don't know which parts you changed (I remember playing it, but I'm not really a coopplayer...)
But I like the atmosphere.. Don't know how it will work out with a lot of players. But I think the flags are way too close to each other?
You might try the tdm I posted somewhere on this forum btw.. It has changing spawnsets.. Might be a good way for a map like this to use every spot.
Maybe you can also add more sounds? When I listen I can hear some, but most people don't listen.. If you really want people to have the jungle feeling you have to exaggerate a bit.. like in a movie when there's a horse somewhere you hear it neighing constantly.
Also for the river you can use curvesounds instead of events, that way the source of the sound will always be on the closest point of the curve.
And maybe you should remove parts of the map... Map is too big to download from a server now..
Kermit wrote:
I walked through it, I don't know which parts you changed (I remember playing it, but I'm not really a coopplayer...)
The "visuals" haven't changed a lot... The "core" of Intrusion was already "there", but now, the map is "fully equiped" for the maximum of immersion. Most players probably will never noticed all the changes I made (or should I say "additions"?) but they are there for sure!
Don't know how it will work out with a lot of players. But I think the flags are way too close to each other?
No idea...but as I said, Intrusion(Wars) hasn't been originally designed for all those modes, so "compromises" had to be done. The flags aren't closer to each others compare to the distance of those of the NVABase map (for example). I hope "it will work" here also! lol
Maybe you can also add more sounds? When I listen I can hear some, but most people don't listen... If you really want people to have the jungle feeling you have to exaggerate a bit..
Some? But IntrusionWars already has a little less than 250 sounds yet!!! Without to forget the "ambient sound" that will never let you in a mute world!
If you are in the "chasing mode", you will notice that the nature sounds are REALLY present...but "as usual" (with me), I would say it is done with "subtility"...
I don't want "jungle sounds" either because...it's not a "jungle map"!
Also for the river you can use curvesounds instead of events, that way the source of the sound will always be on the closest point of the curve.
I will try that but I'm not sure "it will work". The river sound was already too loud by using "events" (in my opinion). If the "source sound" is even closer to the shore, the river may be too "present" (sound) for "her nature" (calm and slow water)... Only the tests will tell me the answer...
And maybe you should remove parts of the map... Map is too big to download from a server now..
Sorry but I won't do that. If I had to reduce the size map to a more "normal level", to be downloaded from a server, IntrusionWars wouldn't be IntrusionWars anymore...
I don't hear a lot of sounds, just some crickets, maybe you've places the birdsounds too high or whatever, just sounds quiet.
With jungle I mean bushes etc. not actual dense jungle.
For the river you can use a lakesound, or just lower the volume of the sound. You don't have to do it with curvesounds, it's just closer to perfection if you do.
Good multiplayer maps have tactical points, junctions whatever you want to call them. In your map those can be the bridge, main road, or the path next to the river.. The point is those places are not important the way the map is like now. The other side of the river is useless for CTF, especially the part that you can only reach by walking the river. You can put the RW flags and spawns somewhere else, or release it as a separate map.
You could for instance use the bridge as a tactical point if you put the flags on both sides, or in ATG if they have to blow it up. Because of the lack of junctions an atg-killall is not suitable at all imo. You better call it hide and seek then. BTW, imagine what happens if a CTF player starts hiding with the flag, in Bahnar it takes 15 min. to find someone like that (yes, i've experienced this in a clanwar), in your map days!
The map is very large and flat. The problem is you can't climb any hill/rock! There is almost no place where you've got an overview of the situation, and thats where players are searching for when they play the game: 'enemy might come there or there'. Of course players can be shot in the back etc. but if you play a multiplayer game you want to know where the enemy is, or at least where they are going. This makes the multiplayer tactical, otherwise its just a deathmatch with enemies everywhere.
To solve this you could make some places with overview, a rock somewhere, a roof of a house, a tree you can climb in, or a watch tower (there are a lot of possibilities).
Otherwise I would advise you to close some sections. That way you'll make the map more suitable and smaller in downloadsize as a plus. I think it's possible while keeping the map's atmosphere. Of course it doesn't have to be as small as waterfall... just a bit more overviewable
This is just my advice. I don't mean anything bad (really), it's just a tip to make your map better and hopefully played a lot.
Very big map, I understand why it was a coop map. you really need to explore the map before playing in it or you get lost. would be nice with a tower on both sides or some rocks to walk up to look over the map. job well done, a map this big must have taken a lone time and effort to complete. I would love to play this map if there was at least 20 players in it. CTF I think the flags could be closer and neer the bridge. if the flag is stolen it is easy to hide and everyone could spend a long time looking for it if the player hides with the flag.
"your request" YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO EDIT THIS MAP IN ANY WAY! PLEASE, RESPECT MY CHOICE AND MY WORK!...
I appreciate your work on this and don't think there is anything in the map apart from the map it self that anyone would like to use, But I did not find any billboards with who made the map in it or web site for others to request how you did something. but I only had a quick look as well. If you decide to never deal with VC anymore and others want to edit your map I don't think asking others NOT TO EDIT the map is fair, rather ask if someone does edit it to make sure to call it a new name and add a billboard with respect to the creator include the creators name & clan if in one. that way respect is given but new options are added and a new re-edit map can be plaid. I also make maps and everyone is welcome to re-edit or use what ever I create as I would be proud to see my items or idea's used from others in there maps. with respect no one should re-edit this map to your request however I would ask you changed you mind on that, Others will download this map in game play and not download it from the site, so you should add a billboard asking the same thing or you might one day find a re-edit from another "not being disrespectful but he just didn't know not to....
Thankyou for the new map, great work and will run it on my server next week to try it out with the rest of my members.
Kermit wrote:
This is just my advice. I don't mean anything bad (really)...
I know Kermit, don't worry. We are only exchanging ideas and opinions...
I don't hear a lot of sounds...just sounds quiet.
I don't know why it sounds soo quiet on your side but I re-checked them and they're are just like I wanted them for such a map... My beta testers never told me the map was too quiet either after HOURS passed on it! lol But I guess it's more a question of "taste" now... Is it the same for "all"?
For the river you can use a lakesound, or just lower the volume of the sound. You don't have to do it with curvesounds, it's just closer to perfection if you do.
The reaction I got was only based on my very first impression, without "feedbacks" on what may be "the rendering"... If the test shows a better result, I will follow your advise wihtout a problem!
Note:
I will talk about "the rest" of your post by replying/mixing the answers with techno's one later...
Could you try put in some good hided tunnels? forexample, by vc spawn, the hill at right side of the road when walking towards bridge, could it be possible to add some tunnel system there, with a bunker or two at the side of the hill? cant get my tought of taking out a US team going on the road looking for the VC, and see them jump into buildings for cover etc, ohh!
Oops, I had almost forgotten to reply these posts... Sorry for the delay!
Kermit wrote:
BTW, imagine what happens if a CTF player starts hiding with the flag, in Bahnar it takes 15 min. to find someone like that (yes, i've experienced this in a clanwar), in your map days!
techno wrote:
CTF I think the flags could be closer and neer the bridge. if the flag is stolen it is easy to hide and everyone could spend a long time looking for it if the player hides with the flag.
I know... I thought it could have been a problem but I also thought "it was made" mainly for Clans Wars, respecting some "fair rules", at least! Like, do NOT cross the river, to have a fair game! If someone decides to cross the river with the flag, to go hide in the second part of the map, it's not the fault of the map but of the player (in my opinion)! Even on smaller maps such a player will ruin the game anyway (like Kermit explained)... So I don't think that splitting the map in 2, to make it smaller (for example) will change something against such players...unfortunately.
Kermit wrote:
The map is very large and flat. The problem is you can't climb any hill/rock! There is almost no place where you've got an overview of the situation,...
But this is exactly what I wanted for my...Coop mode! When I decided to create Intrusion, most of the custom maps were usually small and made with hills and mountains, and I wanted to create "something different" for once... I wanted to create a big area of operation for a small team, starting to be tired at the end of the mission, like it was certainly the case in the reality... However, I agree that the map is maybe 1/4 -> 1/5 too big, but it was "too late" when I realised it. And I've always said that playing Intrusion is like playing 3 different maps "in a row", but at the same time! lol
I remind that IntrusionWars is "only" an adaptation for "the other modes", she has NOT been "thought" (designed) for them... Instead of heavily edit Intrusion for those modes, I would prefer to create a NEW map especially designed for them in that case...
I still really believe that the CTF mode can be interesting, even without those "high (or stressing) points"...but only if the players are numerous AND with a good teamplay! The communication is essential on Intrusion because, like you pointed, a lonely player can't "dominate" a position by himself... In reality, we still have "only" 3 passages: the paddies (for snipers), the main road (for "default" fights) and the river side ( more for "close combats" ). But the "tactical points" remain the flag's huts (with only 2 entries!) and their surrounds...whatever the passages you decide to take. If an enemy steals the flag and decides to take the river side, you can still try to "block" him by going the main road or the paddies' side (or the contraries), but ONLY if the "stolen team" communicate enough with its members! Even a radio man is unable to "rule" on such a map! In fact, possibilities to "mark a point" are soo numerous that it CAN'T be "always the same" on IntrusionWars... Only the most clever and organized teams will win "there", in my opinion! But only "real CTF tests" with 2 organized Clans or Communities will validate my opinion...or not! lol
Kermit wrote:
To solve this you could make some places with overview, a rock somewhere, a roof of a house, a tree you can climb in, or a watch tower (there are a lot of possibilities).
If I add big rocks and hills (or towers), you will see that the areas with a lot of bushes are in fact, simple "bushes walls" with empty areas behind them. Without to talk about all the "clipping objects" we will see, created to save some fps! I already encountered that problem when I put the spectator cams... Have you noticed I haven't placed them that high? It's simply because I wanted to avoid the "clipping bugs". And I've already been obliged to make "compromises" by decreasing the fps because I had no other solutions...
ich will wrote:
Could you try put in some good hided tunnels?..., could it be possible to add some tunnel system there, with a bunker or two at the side of the hill?
Sorry but the structure of Intrusion(Wars) won't change anymore...
I partialy explained the reasons "above" (and "under" ) yet, and the changes would be too "heavy" for me to do now. I would say "it's enough" and will only make "the minimum" on Intrusion still... lol
techno wrote:
"your request" YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO EDIT THIS MAP IN ANY WAY! PLEASE, RESPECT MY CHOICE AND MY WORK!...
...If you decide to never deal with VC anymore and others want to edit your map I don't think asking others NOT TO EDIT the map is fair,...
I know, it may sound unfair but let me explain (a part of) the reasons why I put such a sentence...
As you probably noticed, my Intrusion map is a really BIG project and I was far from expecting to take soo much time when I decided to make it! In fact, Intrusion took me more than 3 years of hard work because "at that time", my knowledge in "the pc world" was close to...zero! I bought my very first pc in 2003 and Vietcong is one of the very first game I bought for it (in 2003 also). I learned "everything" with Intrusion. For "all those reasons" (and many more) I'm "emotionally" linked to that map... We have "a story" in common. lol
However, despite it was my very first map, you can see she has been thoroughly "prepared and thought" from A to Z. The map is not perfect but she's looking just as I wanted it "at that time"...
I really don't have the intention to leave Vietcong and its community and so, my work is STILL not "dead". I'm still there to take care about it "myself". Let's say I'm like "an artist" wanting to have "the full control" on HIS work! lol
If I allow someone to edit Intrusion, I will have to do it for each demand I will receive. But for all the reasons I explained, I just don't want to see someone else making the changes and editions I personally refuse to do myself... I also really doubt "people" will fix the bugs in "their" version aswell. Note that I'm NOT talking about all the fair mappers we already all know...
For example, just because it's a big map, I don't want to see a Coop version with 12, 15 or even more players because I really believe that the gameplay will suffer with such a big number. Intrusion_beta_2 will have 8 slots (on request) but I won't go higher...
However, I'm still open to ideas and suggestions and will try to do my best to add them (in the next versions) IF they comply my "philosophy"...
techno wrote:
I also make maps and everyone is welcome to re-edit or use what ever I create as I would be proud to see my items or idea's used from others in there maps.
I understand your point of view but personally, I would be prouder if my work inspired someone to create his own work instead of "just" editing what I already made. It's not that "I don't want to share"...
I opened "my mapping section" to help people and we are MORE to do the same to try to increase the Vietcong mapping in general.
Geez, that post is already too long and I start to be too tired to "think"! lol
I could say a lot more (and maybe "better said" ) but I think "you" have a better idea about "my positions" now...
I'm presenting you the second version of IntrusionWars!
Only "minor changes" have been made for this beta_2 but they should increase the fun and the immersion of our battles even more! Well, I hope! lol
IntrusionWars_beta_2 updates/corrections:
-------------------------------------------------
-ATGCoop name, fixed (the ATGCoop mode is now "editable" in the console commands)
-Fog, tweaked
-Sky Fog, tweaked
-Clipping objects, fixed
-Visual bugs on the big doors, fixed
-Sounds, added (birds)
-The "No Need to Jump" feature has been extended on the path along the river for an increased gameplay!
-...and many more "little details".
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), in your map days!
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